Katie Macaluso: Hello, everyone, and welcome. Thank you so much for joining us for today's presentation for our online graduate cybersecurity programs. Today we're looking forward to introducing three current students in the program who can tell you a little bit more about the program from the student perspective. We have a full presentation today so we're going to go ahead and get started right away.
Before we jump in, here's a few quick housekeeping items for you. We are recording this event for future viewing, so you can always come back and watch it again.
During this presentation you are on mute, so you can hear us, but we can't hear you. So if you do have any questions throughout the presentation, please feel free to type them in the Q&A box at any time. And then moving on to our next slide is our agenda. So for today, we'll plan to talk a little bit about St. Bonaventure University, and then we'll provide an overview of the cybersecurity graduate programs, but we'll spend the bulk of our time in the student panel discussion. Then we'll wrap up with some admissions information, and finally leave room for Q&A at the end.
So on this slide here’s our speakers for today. I'm Katie Macaluso, and I'm your moderator for today. I'm joined by Marcos Baez and Elizabeth Comino, the admissions counselors for the cybersecurity programs. And then joining us today is Hossein Sarrafzadeh, the program director for the graduate cybersecurity programs. Under his leadership, the online master's degree in cybersecurity has grown to be recognized as the 11th best online master's degree in cybersecurity in the country. Hossein brings a wealth of knowledge, especially in cybersecurity, intelligent systems, the Internet of Things, and cloud security.
And he has published extensively as well as patented several systems. He also launched the first cybersecurity program in his home country of New Zealand back in 2009. We're also delighted to have Pouya Ghotbi, a faculty member and native of Australia with us today to moderate our student panel discussion in just a little bit. After two decades in information technology, Pouya's specialties include software, cloud, and network security. In addition to teaching, he continues to maintain on-the-ground experience working as a solutions engineer for CyberArk, a leader in the privileged access management industry. And as part of the cybersecurity faculty here at St. Bonaventure, he designed and now teaches a course about secure software design.
Before we go ahead and share more about St. Bonaventure, we were hoping to learn a little bit about you. So here on the screen we have a quick poll for you. We're asking which area of cybersecurity interests you most. So if you could, just take a quick second to answer that. We've got offensive security, defensive security, enterprise security, ethical hacking, machine learning for cybersecurity, and data mining for cybersecurity.
Katie Macaluso: I'm starting to see some responses coming in, and we'll give you just a few more seconds to complete that.
Katie Macaluso: And if you're just joining now, we have a poll we've just wrapped up. So we asked which area of cybersecurity interests you most. Actually, it's right now looking very split evenly. We had interests across pretty much all of the areas that we had listed. So that's very interesting. It's just helpful for us to have an idea of where these interests lie, both when we're speaking with you, and then also we'll keep this in mind for future webinar topics too. Alright, so with that I'm going to move this over to the "Why St. Bonaventure" slide and pass it over to Hossein to tell you more about the school.
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: Thank you, Katie. And thank you everyone for attending this webinar. A warm welcome to you and our speakers. Why should you come to St. Bonaventure University, aside from your interest in cybersecurity? We rank number two in the North for Best Value Schools by US News & World Report. The program is 100% online, although we've got on-campus facilities, including a honeynet, a security operation center which is accessible to students, and various labs. We've also got cloud-based labs which we use for our master's program. Our faculty is, I think, the strongest point of our master's program and the university. The university brings the best of the best, especially in the online programs. The faculty enrolled in teaching this program are the best in the world, I believe.
They come from all over the globe. And that's the beauty of online learning. The youngest of these people has not only a PhD in cybersecurity, but also numerous certifications, like the other one, and has been in the industry for a long time. He got his first industry certification when he was 15 years old. And our faculty, I'm really proud of them, and they do a fantastic job of helping our students. We value industry certificates alongside what we teach you online. We encourage you to do industry certification, and to facilitate that we have partnerships with EC Council, we are a Cisco Academy, and we recently became a Palo Alto Academy. All the resources they provide will be at your fingertip, and you can do their certificates.
Our relationship with the Western New York Cybersecurity Research Center is another strength of the program. The Cybersecurity Research Center is actually based on campus and it was an investment, just in software, of over half a million dollars. It provides data for our faculty to do their research and I'm very proud of the program. I'm very glad that some of our students have agreed to talk to you about their experience today.
Now, our graduate online cybersecurity program includes two programs: A master's degree and a certificate degree. The master's degree started first, and our aim was to offer a highly technical program. The program includes teaching in offensive security, defensive security, enterprise security, as well as machine learning and data mining. We also teach areas like cryptography, risk management and many other areas that we feel are necessary for someone in a master's program in cybersecurity. The aim of the program is to produce graduates who can take leadership positions in cybersecurity or technical positions nationally and internationally.
Now, we were getting a lot of applicants in our cybersecurity master's program who didn't have the appropriate background. They had degrees in, say, sociology and years of experience in the FBI or in the police force or one way or another exposure to the technology and we decided that if a student had an undergrad degree or enough certifications to convince us that they had the background to get into the master's program, we would accept them in there and we did.
We still had a large population who couldn't get into the program because they didn't have those certificates and the experience. We decided to create a certificate program, a graduate certificate program, that prepared people for the master's program. The graduate certificate program includes courses like programming. Programming is an area that is needed in our master's program. We assume that you already know programming. Networking, computer networks is another area that we would like our student to be proficient in. So the certificate is a 15-credit program that teaches you the basics of computers and the cyber world, introduction to programming, introduction to databases, computer networks, foundations of cybersecurity, ethical hacking and penetration testing.
This certificate could prepare you for some not so high-level jobs in cybersecurity and it could qualify you to enter the master's program. So you could get a degree, a certificate degree and then move into the master's comfortably, and that's why we created the certificate. If you don't have a relevant degree, a degree in computer science or experience in networking and cybersecurity and certification, industry certification, then you can do the graduate certificate program and enter into the master's. The certificate program includes two courses that are transferable into the master's. So if you do the certificate, you'll only do eight of the 10 courses in the master's program. And I guess with this introduction to both the graduate certificate and the master's, I’ll pass this back on to Katie and ask her to pass it on to our student panel.
Katie Macaluso: Terrific. Actually, I'm going to go ahead and hand this over to Pouya. Pouya is going to be moderating our student panel discussion for us and also introducing the three students who are with us today.
Pouya Ghotbi: Thank you so much Katie and Hossein. Hi everyone, my name is Pouya, I'm actually from Australia, Melbourne, Australia. Nice meeting you all, e-meeting you all in this webinar. Alright so, today we're going to have a panel with some of our best students in the program that I have been privileged to have them in my class, the course that I teach, that is Secure Software Design.
So we've got three students on the panel and we're going to ask a couple of questions. And we're going to discuss some of the frequently asked questions that you may all have. And when it gets to Q&A, if you have any other questions, we can cover those.
So today with me on the panel we've got Dominic Saglimben. Dominic is a cybersecurity defense operation analyst and he works at M&T Bank in Buffalo, New York. Also with us is Shawn Ellis. Shawn is a system security engineer, works in information system security as an information system security analyst in Thales in Canada and he works on defense and security. He’s based in Ottawa in Canada. We also have Marc Robinson. He currently runs a private IT consulting firm and has a lot of extensive senior-level IT experience working with different companies, including Transcom, Cloud Ten and Deloitte Consulting, among other companies.
Alright, so let's kick it off. I'll start with Shawn. Shawn, the first question I've got for you is, can you just explain a little bit about your role and also what are you hoping to get out of the master's degree that you've started, the master's in cybersecurity, and how it can essentially help you to accomplish your goals and your career.
Shawn Ellis: Okay. Thank you, Pouya. I currently work for Thales Defense and Security in Ottawa as Pouya mentioned. A lot of what I do is security, assessment and authorization, trying to figure out what security controls can be applied to systems, but mostly what we call platform systems, or systems used in a military context. I realized quite quickly when I took this job that industry is a little bit behind in some of the security areas. So what I'm hoping is to gain enough background that I can assist Thales in providing client products that are as secure as possible.
We can't be 100% secure, but as secure as possible, but more importantly to develop a cybersecurity environment which means including cybersecurity into the engineering, software development, IVNV, like the validation part of it as well. So ultimately in the end, I plan to operate at the management level and to be able to guide the executive level on how to navigate through the complexities of cybersecurity.
Pouya Ghotbi: That's great, Shawn. Thanks for sharing that. I’ll ask the same question for Marc. I'm just curious from all three of you what do you do and how you think this program can help you. So, Marc, what do you do? And what do you think about this program?
Marc Robinson: Yeah, sure. Hi Pouya, I know we just finished your class. It was amazing. I know I emailed you the same thing. This isn't scripted, I didn't realize you were going to be on this call, but your class is really amazing. We learned a lot for sure.
Pouya Ghotbi: Thank you so much.
Marc Robinson: To answer your question, what do I do? So I do IT project management from a consultative perspective, strategy design, things of that nature, all around different IT solutions, whether it's tied to the captive facility or the campus facilities. What do I think about how a master's program in cybersecurity applies to my career?
The two aren't necessarily directly proportional right now, but my endgame really is to, and it's ironic that Dr. Sarrafzadeh mentioned you work at CyberArk. My endgame is to create a cybersecurity firm that has many different tentacles to stay the everyday security-related breaches that are having day in and day out, but also to have a twist where there's this regulatory or legislative capability within that firm to help some of the threats in arenas that aren't that well-regulated like the IoT.
The cybersecurity master's program has really helped me understand more in-depth what Shawn alluded to in how to help solve some of the problems that we all face, and these companies face, and our government faces on the threat landscape that's out there today.
Pouya Ghotbi: Oh yeah, that's great. On a side note, I think that's quite important. As members of the society, we have a responsibility, and personally for me, it's quite important and I'm trying to help my society as much as I can by contributing into the cybersecurity part of the world Which is quite important these days, because everything is online.
Marc Robinson: That's right.
Pouya Ghotbi: Everything is digitized. So yeah. And yeah, so hopefully when you finish your program, maybe we can find you a job in CyberArk?
Marc Robinson: I'm already an investor, so yeah.
Pouya Ghotbi: Okay, awesome. Yeah. So I'll try my best to keep your investment. Alright. Cool. Thank you so much, Mark. So Dominic, what's your point of view on this one? The first question I want to hear, all three of you, and then the next questions maybe we’ll split it between you three.
Dominic Saglimben: Okay, yeah. Great. Thanks, Pouya. So I'm in a little bit different situation than these guys. I'm pretty young. I just turned 23 and I actually just got a job in cybersecurity about a month ago with M&T as a cybersecurity operations defense analyst. Honestly, the program has already helped me accomplish really what I want to do in my career at the start, which was to get my foot in the door into cybersecurity. My undergrad degree was computer science and I just worked a year of your basic IT and then I started this program and we're about halfway through, a little more maybe, and it already got me an analyst position in cybersecurity. The great thing about it is they're just craving people.
That's why they already hired me before I even finished getting my degree. Where I want to go, I'm not sure. I'm learning that there's so many different parts and I'm actually in a great position right now where I'm kind of getting to do a little bit of everything, and hopefully time will tell and point me in the direction. Probably the end goal would be somewhere in leadership or management. I think that I could see myself somewhere like that, but honestly, just being in the program has already gotten me in. I know this field, they're just craving people. I know we're still trying to hire people. If you have maybe a little IT background or something like that and you're on the fence about the program, it helped me get my job before I even finished. So just something else to keep in mind there.
Pouya Ghotbi: Yeah, yeah. That's a very, very good point actually on the cybersecurity market. So for attendees on the call, I just wanted to share something really, like an experience that we had with the students in the course that I was teaching. So, in one of our live sessions, I was... We were talking about the importance of the course and what we're covering. So, in one of the exercises we just jumped on LinkedIn and we searched for some of the keywords that we were covering in the course.
And plenty of jobs came up and that shows there's a massive shortage of skilled people in cybersecurity and programs like this, which are very hands-on, very close to the industry. Which we're going to talk about curriculum, but can definitely help people that want to move or to change careers or they want to advance their careers, or start a career. On the panel, we have people in different journeys in life and you can see how it helps. Awesome, so Marc, why did you choose St. Bonaventure University? What happened, what was your thought process? I'm interested in that.
Marc Robinson: Sure, yeah, no, great. So I actually looked at probably eight different programs or universities. And then we had a session with Dr. Sarrafzadeh, and he introduced us to St. Bonaventure and his vision of where the program's going, what he would like to see as well as what's going on from a campus perspective. And it was really intriguing to me. So, after looking at the eight universities in total, I settled on St. Bonaventure because it felt right to me.
I prayed on it, and here I am. And I think I'm on, what, my fifth course out of... I know everyone says 10, I'm taking 11 courses, so I'm almost half way done, it's been great. I've learned a lot. And again, I know I've said it before, the way you've structured your class was really amazing and I'm sure Dominic and Sean can attest to it, as well, not only showing us the market opportunities by doing those keyword searches, but also introducing us to the tools that we would leverage in the market from doing anything from, I don't know, a SaaS type of approach or DaaS type of approach or a proxy set up, it was just amazing, learned a whole lot.
Pouya Ghotbi: Yeah, thank you so much for that. Yeah, that's great. Actually, I'd like to share my experience from the other side of the fence as well. What was, I can't say surprising, but it was really interesting for me, was the level of students that we had in the class, and the interaction that we had with everyone. All the students that joined, they were really great, everyone was participating in discussions. Very good discussion, very good things came out of it. And I personally learned a lot from the feedback that you guys were giving each other on the assignments, on all the activities that we had. And I think one of the important factors for an online course to be successful, online program to be successful is student participation. And what I've found very effective and very good was that the students that are in this program are very mature in their approach.
They know a lot, they've experienced a lot and they're willing to share their experience with other students. So, from the other side of the fence as well, I really enjoyed it and I am enjoying working in this program. Thank you so much.
So, Dominic, I've got a question for you. So, a lot of students have concerns around when they're doing an online course, are you able to connect with the faculty? Can you have enough time to interact or if you have questions?
So, that's probably one of the concerns that a lot of students have, or also like building relationships with other students that are participating in the program. So, what is your take on this? How was your experience so far? How did you find this? Can you just share a little bit with us.
Dominic Saglimben: Yeah, absolutely. So this was actually a concern of mine a little bit coming in and I can tell you that it's been pretty great. It really has not been an issue. The instructors are all pretty good at responding relatively within 24 hours. So, if you have a question, you're going to get that answered pretty quick. There's also an option in just about all of the classes, I'm pretty sure all of the classes, there's the ask the instructor option where you can just go in there and post a question. But the great thing about it is that everyone can see it that is in the class. So, it's almost better sometimes, because some people don't like asking questions in person or like asking questions if you're in a classroom environment, someone raises their hand, some people just don't love to do that.
In this regard, you can kind of be behind your keyboard and ask the question and everyone can kind of chime in and answer the question. It doesn't have to just be the instructor. So you end up kind of getting some great teamwork there from different classmates. They give you their perspective, the instructor usually jumps in and gives an answer as well. So it can almost be better in that regard, connecting with the faculty, it's a pretty family-oriented environment. I know when I just got my job, even Dr. Hossein personally reached out to me, which I thought was great.
It feels like a tight-knit group and the classes aren't too big. That really was not an issue at all for me personally. Everyone's pretty good at talking to each other and the instructors are pretty great at answering your questions to the best of their abilities.
Pouya Ghotbi: Yeah, sure, exactly. As I mentioned earlier, one of the interesting points for me. Because of my previous experience I've always taught in classroom environments, and some students knew each other, but the level of interaction in this online program was much, much higher than in a classroom-based environment, which was very interesting and very joyful for me to watch and see. Like every time there was an activity, someone posts something, and everyone comments on it, corrects, or even sometimes just even praising the other person, which is quite good.
And one of the things that we do in the courses, I mean, I did in my course, I'm pretty sure the other courses do as well, is we have part of the assessment is based on the group activities and the class activities and interaction with the other students. So, that sort of helps as well, I believe.
Okay. Perfect. So, Shawn, let's talk about the curriculum and how did you find the topics or the courses that you've done so far? Do you think that you've been able to apply that in your day-to-day job?
Shawn Ellis: Thank you Pouya. Well, so far, I found the course to be very challenging. I'm no spring chicken. Honestly, I was terrified to start the program at first. But the content was very well presented, and as well the success coach Veronica was extremely helpful in keeping me, I guess, my feet on the ground and promoting that I can do this.
It was easy to tell that the professors put a lot of work to provide high-quality content. Everything that was presented online, it was easy to read, easy to navigate. There's a few glitches, of course, but quickly, quickly addressed. The thing I appreciate most about this program is the well-roundedness of the courses. Hossein had mentioned that we have everything from just some simple coding cybersecurity software development, networking, data mining. I think it gives us enough background that we could effectively, I guess navigate into any particular field of cybersecurity, we may not be experts, but it provides us a path that we could pick and choose or try to be I guess an expert at all of it.
Pouya Ghotbi: Yeah, great. So, I remember we had this discussion. So in terms of what you learned in the program, how could you apply that in your day-to-day job, or how did it help you to progress your career so far, not even finishing?
Shawn Ellis: Good question. Well, ironically, it did match up with your course again, I did not know as Marc had mentioned you would be in this webinar. But I was asked by the corporate level to provide feedback on their approach for applying cybersecurity to their engineering, and one of them was discussing the tools to do secure software development. And it was very empowering that I could sit in this meeting and actually talk the talk and walk the walk. So I was able to negotiate back, and forth which tool would be better than others and provide the pros and cons. That was pretty exciting, a little scary because we'd just finished the course, but very empowering that I was able to do that.
Pouya Ghotbi: Thank you. Thank you for doing a great job in learning all those concepts. But look, that is the intention. One of the things that Dr. Sarrafzadeh talked to me when we were starting the course that I'm teaching was trying to keep it as close to industry as possible and as practical as possible, because eventually what we want is after you finish this program, you're ready to go in the industry or if you're already in the industry, you can progress further, or you can do something like deliver projects or work on things that you've never worked on. So it's actually very satisfying to hear that, thank you so much for that.
Marc Robinson: Just real quick. Sorry, this is Marc. Again, I think to Shawn’s point, the beauty was you taught us real world. It wasn't a bunch of theory. We utilized tools that would be utilized in the market, and you taught us to apply those learnings into the real world. So, I think that's why it was so refreshing and why Shawn did such a wonderful job in presenting to his company what they could do to solve some of their challenges.
Pouya Ghotbi: Yeah, that's great, yeah, exactly, because the thing is, the IT industry as a whole, especially cybersecurity is moving really, really fast. So, what they say is in IT, essentially, whatever you know today in three years’ time, it's invalid, because things change completely in three years. So it's quite important to be up to date, knowing the tools that are current in the environment, in industry and that people use is quite important, but it's also important to understand the concepts behind it, and that's something that we try to cover. So we try to talk about the concepts, teach you everything that you need to know and then present you to what industry has to offer and what people are using in industry. So, I think that that balance is quite important.
So yeah, so I think it's really great. Dominic, do you have any points on that? I know you just started your job, but have you seen the courses that you've done in practice?
Dominic Saglimben: I have, yeah. Actually, what I do most of the day is really analyze logs better because I'm a Defense Analyst, and actually in the current classroom right now, data mining, we're kind of doing the research paper and doing a lot of research slowly throughout the class and it shows log analysis. So, it's really lining up directly with my training, which could not have worked out any better. So, I'm learning things at work as well as outside of work to help my career, which is exactly what I wanted out of the master's program.
And to echo kind of what Shawn and Marc said, the program has been great about being hands-on, which was my biggest concern coming in. I even met with Dr. Hossein and that was one of my biggest concerns. It's not like they just give you a multiple choice test, like kind of undergrad does sometimes, but I really felt like the hands-on experience, you're actually doing the work that you would be doing at work. So that's something that I wanted to touch on, and I thought that it is lining up directly with what my career goals are and what I'm doing right now in my career.
Pouya Ghotbi: That’s great, great to hear. Awesome. So Marc, I have another question for you. So, as I understand, you work full-time, and you also study online. How does it work for you? How do you keep up? Is it feasible to do that?
Marc Robinson: I'll say a piece of scripture. As Apostle Paul told Timothy, "Endure hardships is a good soldier." So what this master's course has really taught me outside of all the wonderful things around cybersecurity is really time management and balancing my time. Often, we think we don't have enough hours in the day, but if you manage your time appropriately, you'll find the time and you'll figure out how to get things done more accordingly, more efficiently, more effectively. So, it has been a challenge at times, just because the workload is heavy, but I expected nothing less. If it were easy, then I would be suspect around the program. I have been able to balance my time. I have been able to juggle accordingly. And there are going to be sacrifices that have to be made. That's true for anything that's worth having.
So, we as students make the sacrifices and sometimes, we'll pull the long hours, but it's all worth it. It's really been an enriching and rewarding experience for me. To Shawn’s point earlier, I'm not a young chicken, either. I've seen many spring chicken, I've seen many springs. But in doing this course, it's really reinvigorated me and I'm starting to think differently. My energy levels have gone up, even though I'm pulling longer hours and it's really been an exciting journey so far. So I have no complaints. I think everything that we're doing is worthwhile, it's applicable and it aligns with what I expected out of the program thus far.
Pouya Ghotbi: Yeah that's great, that's great. Alright, thank you so much, guys. I think we sort of covered some of the frequently asked questions that may come up for this course. Some students may have never done an online program like this. So, it's actually good to know, and it's good to see your point of view because you've been through this and you've done an amazing job so far, and I encourage you to keep up the good work, as you've done in the course that we did together. Alright, thank you so much. So Katie, I think I'll hand it back to you if there are any questions that we can answer.
Katie Macaluso: Perfect, thank you, thank you Pouya and thank you very much to all of our student panelists. This was a wonderful discussion. If there were any things you were wondering about that you wanted to ask and that you don't feel like were already answered, this would be a great opportunity to use the Q&A box on your screen, to submit those questions, and we'll try to get to those at the end as well. So with that, we're going to go ahead and move to our next slide on admissions and I'm going to pass it over to Marcos.
Marcos Baez: Hello everyone and first of all, I want to thank Dominic, Shawn and Mark for talking in today's webinar. You guys were a pleasure to work with through the admissions process, and I'm glad our program is paying off for you. It sounds like, as you say, it already is doing that in just participating, not even finishing the program yet and it's paying dividends. So congrats, I appreciate your feedback so far.
Now, outlining the admission steps. Being a master's, a graduate program, a bachelor's degree from a credited institution is required for our program as Hossein outlined, we no longer require computer science background due to our new foundational certification program. So we do have options for students looking to break in to the industry. Minimum GPA, it's 2.5 with your own undergrad, and that's cumulative. So, if you attended multiple institutions, we do require all transcripts. A police clearance is also required due to the sensitive nature of cybersecurity and the information you'll have access to, we just want to ensure there's nothing unethical in your background, as it relates. Currently, we're still accepting applications for our next session, starting October 21st. Upon completion of this webinar, all attendees will receive contact information for myself, and my colleague, don't hesitate to reach out and start the process.
Katie Macaluso: Terrific, alright, thank you, Marcos. With that, we're going to go ahead and move into the Q&A sessions. We've got just a little bit of time left for any questions that you might still have. I see a couple have already come in and then just a reminder to use that box to submit any other questions you might have. So I'm going to go ahead and check for those right now.
Let's see... Our first question is: In my job I manage messaging and the cloud threats, how much of that is included in the program? I'm going to turn over to you, Hossein.
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: The program does not specifically get into cloud, although we do use cloud in the program, we're currently not teaching cloud or cloud security in the program, except for bits and pieces that relate to network and enterprise security that cross over to cloud security. We are working on a new course called Cloud Security, and that course is specifically relevant and very helpful to the job that you're doing.
Katie Macaluso: Alright. Thank you, Hossein. Our next question is actually for the panelists. This person is asking about how much time per week on average they devote to course work in the program. Maybe I'll go ahead and start that one with Dominic, and then if anyone else wants to chime in additionally feel free. But I'll start with you Dominic, if you could average about how much time per week you find the program to be.
Dominic Saglimben: Yeah, so some weeks obviously are a little heavier than others. And, that'll be like that throughout the whole course. If I can ballpark a number, it would probably be somewhere between, I would say six and 12, maybe Marc and Shawn will have a different answer, just depending on what we're doing that week, or how you break it up throughout the week if you do an hour or two a day and try to look at things and study a little bit, or if you just kind of bash out the assignments on the weekends. I would probably ballpark between somewhere there, I know it's kind of a big radius but, like I said, some weeks you're going to feel like you haven't done a ton, and in other weeks, you're going to feel like you've done a little more. That's just how school kind of goes. I don't know if Marc or Shawn have different answers.
Shawn Ellis: Yeah. For me, I've never looked at it from the perspective of how much time overall per week I need to put in. I really look at it from the perspective of the workload, and what I need to do each day in order to meet our deadlines. Again, this is an asynchronous program, but we have specific deadlines for our deliverables, just like you would in your work sphere. So, I ensure that every day at a minimum I'm spending at least two to three hours, either reading or doing the work for preparing the work that needs to be turned in at a set date. So, it really varies kind of to what Dominic said. Sometimes our projects are pretty intensive, and some will require coding some will require quite a bit of research, others it's more intuitive intellectual understandings from our backgrounds and things of that nature. So it varies. You're going to spend at a minimum 10 hours per week.
Katie Macaluso: Okay, great. Thank you both so much for your answers on that. Our next question is what type of financial assistance is available for veterans? I'm going to pass this to you, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth Comino: Yes. So we are here to partner with you and help you through the financial aid process. Specifically, if you're working with active military members or veterans, we have a specialist in our financial aid department, his name is Frank Morales. So we'll get you in touch with him to see what options might be available to use based on what benefits you may have or be interested in learning more about.
And, just overall as far as financial aid goes, we're really here to help you through that process from beginning to the end. One question that's been coming up a lot lately is if financial aid is eligible for those foundations classes in addition to the rest of the program? And it is, so we'd be happy to partner with you and answer any questions that you have about getting through that financial aid process.
Katie Macaluso: Great. Thank you.
Marc Robinson: And this is Marc, and I’m actually a veteran as well. They do a really good job, they are being St. Bonaventure, of looking after us veterans. There's a slew of different programs that are available to help us accordingly. So, the whole veteran aspect as it relates to St. Bonaventure, and leaning in to support us, they do it for sure. And Frank Morales is a great resource to leverage.
Katie Macaluso: Terrific. Thanks so much Mark. Our next question is, "If I don't have any IT experience, how hard would it be to start in that certificate program?" Hossein, would you want to take that one?
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: Yes, I would love to answer that question because we've done so much work on creating that bridge from someone without experience in IT into a master’s of cybersecurity. It's easy because we start with teaching you the basics of computing, then we go into computer programming, and then we teach you databases and then we teach your networks. So, it's a mini computer science minor’s program, with courses that are very relevant to the master's. So, it won't be hard at all. It's probably harder to do the master's with a background in computer science than to do the certificate without any background. Of course, any background, any experience with IT, would be very helpful.
Katie Macaluso: Sure. And actually, on a similar note, we had a second question related to that about the experience level that is. This person says I don't have experience in objected oriented programming, and I do not know how to program in Python in Java. Do I need to learn Python and Java before applying to this program and what level of mathematics would I need?
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: The programming that's required in the master's program, we cover in the certificate and we're going to teach you Python. And we're going to teach you enough to be able to understand the content in the master's program.
The level of mathematics, the more the better, you do need to have a mathematical understanding, but that's not a very high level. If you've done a calculus course or even a pre-calculus course, that should get you through. There are courses that require a bit more mathematics, like cryptography, for example. The cryptography course is already very applied, but we are trying to have options where you can take either the cryptography course or a cloud security course.
So, we will help you through the program as much as possible and we'll give you the background you need in programming and IT in the certificate program. I hope that answers your question.
Katie Macaluso: Perfect. Alright. So, our next question asks. Are all of the classes in the certificate program intended to be taken sequentially or can some be taken in parallel? Hossein, I know you'll be able to answer that as well.
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: First of all, you don't have to do all the courses in the certificate program. Depending on what your background is, I will go through your credentials and we will determine what you need to do. If you have to do the certificate program as a whole, then yes, they're sequential. You will have to do the introductory course, followed by programming, followed by database, followed by networks and then Introduction to cybersecurity and the ethical hacking and contesting. But if you do already have knowledge of one, or the other, then you won't have to do the course. And yes, they are sequential.
Katie Macaluso: I think that covers that one. And I think this wraps up the time that we have for Q&A questions today. So we're going to go ahead and wrap up, we want to thank you all for attending today's webinar. It was wonderful to have you all, it was especially wonderful to have our panelists, Marc, Shawn and Dominic, our faculty Pouya Ghotbi, and Hossein Sarrafzadeh.
We want to thank you for attending. We'll be sending out a recording of the webinar following today. And as Marcos mentioned earlier, if you're interested in scheduling time to chat with an advisor about the program or to go ahead and start your application, you can just hang out right here in this window and we'll leave up a couple of links as we close up the webinar for you to get started with that. Thank you again and have a great rest of your day.
Katie Macaluso: Hello everyone and welcome to our webinar! Thank you so much for joining us today to learn more about the online graduate cybersecurity programs offered by St. Bonaventure University. We have a full presentation today so we're going to go ahead and get started right away.
Before we jump in, here's a quick look at some housekeeping items. I just want to mention that we're in broadcast-only mode so that means that you can hear us, but we can't hear you. Should you have any questions during the presentation, please type them into the Q&A box at the bottom of your screen. We'll be sure to save time at the close of the presentation to address those.
Alright, our next slide, here's a quick look at our agenda. We'll be starting out with some welcome and introductions of everybody on the webinar, we'll talk a little bit about St. Bonaventure University and then the two graduate programs: The Online Master of Science in Cybersecurity and the Online Graduate Certificate in Cybersecurity. We'll feature some presentations from four of our accomplished faculty members and then finally, we'll save room for Q&A at the end.
Katie Macaluso: So without further ado, here are those of us on the webinar. I'm your moderator for today, my name is Katie Macaluso, and I'm joined by our admissions team, Marcos Baez and Elizabeth Comino, as well as our Program Director, Hossein Sarrafzadeh as well as four of our faculty members: Javad Shamani, Mark O'Connell, Mikhail Sudakov and Pouya Ghotbi. I'll leave more time for them to introduce themselves in just a little bit. So at this point, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to Elizabeth to share a little bit more about St. Bonaventure.
Elizabeth Comino: Hi, everyone. To get us started, I just wanted to share a little bit about St. Bonaventure University. We are a private non-profit Catholic Franciscan university. We were founded in 1858. While the cyber program is 100% online, we are very proud of the tradition that we have with our university located in Western New York.
We are dedicated to academic excellence with our program. We give a lot of personalized attention to our students. We want to prepare you to go out into your professional careers and lead personal lives that are very valuable. We are ranked number one in New York state and number two in the north for the best regional university value by U.S. News & World Report, and we're also consistently ranked by The Princeton Review as one of the nation's best colleges. We are regionally accredited by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education. Next, we'll share a little bit more with you about our cyber program.
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: Hello, my name is Hossein Sarrafzadeh and I'm currently in New Zealand for the summer. I'm actually from New Zealand. It's, believe it or not, 7 AM in the morning on Wednesday actually, so I'm a day ahead of you. I was hired out of New Zealand to lead the cybersecurity program at St. Bonaventure University in 2016. I have a PhD in Computer Science, specializing in machine learning and artificial intelligence and I've applied those to cybersecurity as a part of my research. So my specialization is machine learning and data mining for cybersecurity.
I started New Zealand's first cybersecurity program in 2009. I created a cybersecurity research center in New Zealand and ever since I've come to St. Bonaventure University, I've created this new master's program and new certificate program which I'll be talking to you about. I've created Western New York's Cybersecurity Research Center in collaboration with National ICT Japan, Canadian Institute for Cybersecurity and a number of local companies.
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: To tell you a little bit about the cybersecurity program and its strengths, I can name a couple of things first, and that's the Cybersecurity Center, which I mentioned. The Cybersecurity Center does research in monitoring of attacks on Western New York and analyzing those attacks. It does machine learning, opinion mining, data mining and various other projects that are in the center, either funded by the university or externally and the students are allowed to use the data produced at the center and have access to the research in the center.
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: We also have a Security Operations Center and that Security Operations Center allows students to work in the Center while they study. We have partnerships with the EC Council and CISCO. This gives you free access to online materials and huge discounts, up to 65% on certification that is provided by the EC Council such as the Ethical Hacker certificate which teaches you ethical hacking and pen testing and also a range of CISCO certificates. The program is 100% online. You have access to your professors who are accomplished people in their fields. All of our faculty have industry certificates in their area of expertise, so they're hands-on people, they've had years of experience in the industry. Actually, one of them and he will tell you, he got his first cybersecurity certificate when he was 14. So with all of that, I'm telling you that the program is a solid program and it provides a range of topics which I'll be covering. We were also ranked number 11 in the security degrees hub in the country as a master of cybersecurity program.
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: The online master's in the cybersecurity program is 30 to 33 credits. You can complete it in as few as 18 months. Each course is seven weeks long, so you can do one course at a time. And if you need to brush up on your networking, then we might recommend that you do a networking for cybersecurity course prior to starting it to get you started in the networking basics and concepts that relate to cybersecurity.
The program is designed for busy working professionals, and we were getting a lot of applications from people who were police officers and the FBI and in various areas of the workforce who didn't have preparation for the master's program. So we've created a certificate program, a graduate certificate program, which I'll be talking about to get those who wanted to do the master's program but didn't have the preparation into it. We were actually getting, and then rejecting five applications out of every six that we were getting before the certificate was designed and approved by the state of New York. So now if you don't have a degree in computer science or don't have the background for cybersecurity Master's, a certificate program will give you that. We do real work, course work. We use cloud-based labs which will allow you to do cybersecurity practice without damaging anything, and you do it like in the real word, because our servers are there and then they're virtualized so that you can use them without any damage to the infrastructure.
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: Now one of the key things that makes our program stand out is the range of topics that we provide in the course, and that is we teach you Offensive Security. We teach you how to hack but then we teach you how to defend, Defensive Security. We also teach Enterprise Security which makes you employable in more advanced roles. We teach you cryptography. We teach you software security. In addition to all of that, we teach you machine learning and data mining which are cutting edge areas that are applied to cybersecurity. This makes our program really popular amongst the students, and you can see the testimonial that was taken from one of the students in the program. We try to keep our students as happy as it is possible with the content and with the delivery.
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: The online graduate certificate in cybersecurity, like I said, is a bridging program that bridges people who lack the background, for example, in programming, in networking and various other areas into cybersecurity. It's a stand-alone program because in that program, we teach you ethical hacking, pen testing and various topics in cybersecurity in addition to programming as well as networking and the basics of computing. So you could graduate with a graduate certificate in cybersecurity, but this graduate certificate not only allows you to go out to work, but it also prepares you for our master's program or basically a master's in cybersecurity, and it's designed for busy working professionals, although if you're a fresh graduate, you could also do this and get into the field of cybersecurity. So it's your key into cybersecurity advanced programs, like the master. Now it's time to start introducing our faculty members.
Mohammad Javad Shamani: Hi. This is Dr. Mohammad Javad Shamani. I got my bachelor from Iran University of Science and Technology in IT engineering. I got my Masters in information security from University of Tehran. And finally, I got my PhD from University of New South Wales in Electrical Engineering. I started my IT journey at the age of 14 and I got my MCP at the age of 15. From the age of 15 onward, I'm studying and working. So, a couple of my positions I’ve held... I was a network technician and engineer. I've started my journey with data, then network admin, network security designer. I was information security specialist for a couple of years, cybersecurity specialist after my master. And then at the end of my PhD, I was cybersecurity researcher. Then right now, I'm a trainer, consultant and SME for a couple of polytechnics organizations and St. Bonaventure University.
Mohammad Javad Shamani: So my areas of expertise are network forensic, incident handling, continuous monitoring, log analysis and site design. Right now for St. Bonaventure University, I teach 500, CYB-500 and CYB-501. In CYB-500, what we do is just we prepare students for future units and courses. So it's based on networking, but practical networking with security respective. So it's mostly hands-on experience and labs, and they try to troubleshoot by themselves with no help. But in CYB-501, it's about ethical hacking and penetration testing. So they try to understand the fundamental steps in these two category. Nothing else with me, and just I'll pass it to Mark.
Mark O'Connell: Thank you, Javad. Hello to all who are interested in St. Bonaventure University cybersecurity program. My name is Mark O'Connell and I'm one of the adjuncts and in particular I teach enterprise networks. A little bit about me first, I have a 35-year career, almost exclusively in IT related matters and specializing in Info Security. For the first eight years or so, I was a U.S. Air Force captain in charge of Info Security on mainframes both at the SAC underground command post in Omaha and in various offices in the Pentagon. After that, I was a consultant for Arthur Andersen and Company again on mainframe Info Security. For those of you who are younger, look up Arthur Andersen, a company that no longer exists. It's an interesting tale! After that I was a tech services manager at Washington Metro Transit Authority, the people who run the trains and buses in Washington DC, where I was in charge of all PC land rollout, Info Security, mainframes, networks and databases.
Mark O'Connell: After that, for 19 years I was a network engineer, change manager and data center director for Verizon, the telephone company in their all manner of capacities related to network infrastructure, change management and Info Security. And for the last four years I've been a consultant with a company known as Livingstone where I consult U.S.-wide and even worldwide in software asset management as well as information security. And for at least 10 years I've been an adjunct teacher at various colleges teaching them all manner of Info Security classes in particular related to enterprise networks but also security fundamentals, homeland security, firewalls as well as business related classes including corporate finance, cost and price and dozens and dozens more classes. I have both a BS and MS in computer science and an MBA from Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. I look forward to seeing each and every one of you either online or on campus, on St. Bonaventure University. And now I turn the discussion over to Mikhail. Take it away, Mikhail.
Mikhail Sudakov: Hello and welcome! My name is Mikhail Sudakov. I work full time in the field for LEO Cyber Security, which is a security company. I am cybersecurity architect and analyst. And if you're wondering what does that mean exactly? What do I do? Well, I do a little bit of everything. I am a developer of security applications and software. I am a registered hacker and I regularly conduct penetration tests and software hacks. I have a couple of offensive security designations. I am a threat hunter. I am a security analyst. I am a public speaker. I am a teacher. I am a pretty big gamer. And most importantly, I am human. So prior to joining Leo, I actually worked for St. Bonaventure University and I was developing some applications as well as doing some information security work for them. And also in my final year of that I was teaching undergraduate course of cryptology for the bachelor's in computer science.
Mikhail Sudakov: And before that, I also graduated from St. Bonaventure University and I did my undergrad and then MBA in 2012. So for the cybersecurity program, I teach a course of applied cryptography and, it's actually more of cryptology than just cryptography. Cryptology includes many fields, cryptography being only one of them. Some of the other important fields of cryptology are cryptanalysis and steganography. We will not be covering steganography all that much if at all. Now as I mentioned here, there is a huge emphasis on cryptanalysis or breaking codes. In fact, you will be doing more of cryptanalysis and breaking codes than you'll be doing cryptography or writing codes because I strongly believe in security by offense. And in order to truly understand how something works, you must take it apart.
Mikhail Sudakov: So one of my favorite phrases is the phrase I don't know, among others. I believe these are very empowering words. Never be afraid to say, "I don't know. I don't understand. Teach me." In the security field we very much value that, your curiosity, your endless curiosity, your desire to learn. And the words 'I don't know' are the very beginning of that. And these are just some of my personal beliefs. That's just me. Some agree, some disagree. I strongly, very strongly believe, in defense by offense. Now, I don't mean delivering the first punch. I mean testing your own defenses constantly, all the time. That's how you get better. You attack yourself, you see where you're weak. Never be afraid to admit your own weaknesses and work on them. I also believe that prevention, I put useless here in quotes because, well, it's not really useless. However, it is evidence that in today's security field a lot of emphasis goes on prevention and prevention.
Mikhail Sudakov: And honestly, if somebody wants you bad enough, they're going to get you. That's why I said prevention is, I don't believe in prevention. It's detection and mitigation. They will get in. So spending too many resources on stopping them is not going to bode well for you. Detect as soon as possible and mitigate as soon as possible. I strongly believe that if you are to be able to protect, well, you have to know how to attack. Because unless you know what your adversary is targeting and what they're going after and all their tactics and how they're going about their offensive, how in the world will you be able to detect and mitigate all those threats well, if you don't know what is coming at you? And finally try harder. Harder and harder, harder than you can believe. We very much value those people in this field that exhibit this quality. Never stop. Always stay hungry, thirsty. Always improve yourself. And you will do very well in this field. And next, I'll pass this over to Pouya Ghotbi.
Pouya Ghotbi: Thank you, Mikhail. Hello everyone. My name is Pouya Ghotbi. I'm from Melbourne, Australia. So I just want to give you a quick overview of my expertise and experience in the security field. So I've been in the IT industry for around 20 years, out of which 10 years I've been focused on security. And that includes different areas of security including software security, cloud security, network security, penetration testing, identity and access management and most recently privileged access management or PAM. So most of my experience has been around design architecture and also implementation of very complex security systems, typically in tier one companies like banks, telcos, especially in Australia I've been involved in the four big banks in Australia and telcos, but start of my career, I have worked with a smaller companies and smaller industries as well. So I've got a wide range of expertise and experience in the field.
Pouya Ghotbi: So currently I work as a solutions engineer which is like a presales role. So I'm involved in the sales cycle, technical sales for the company that I work in, that is the number one leader in this privileged access management industry called CyberArk. So in terms of my education, I've got a bachelor's degree in software engineering and I've got a master's in computer science from RMIT University in Australia. And my teaching background has been quite extensive. I used to be a sessional lecturer and also head tutor and tutor for more than around 15 courses, around networking, security, software security, things similar to that. So also, I'm a public speaker. I've run different courses around security here in Australia.
Pouya Ghotbi: So the other thing I just wanted to touch on was my certifications, industry certifications. I've got various certifications from Microsoft, Cisco, Check Point, F5, FireEye, Splunk, a bunch of others. I just want to quickly touch a little bit on the course that I teach, which is secure software design. It's a unique course that we've designed for St. Bonaventure University. I did courses around securing the software during the software development life cycle. We look at the methods, techniques and procedures and principles that we can use to secure software and address all the vulnerabilities at root, so before it actually gets out to production and before it is exposed. So naturally after that, you've got penetration testing and other testing. We talk about a lot of quite up to date industry standards, industry tools that I've used for security testing as well, like SAST, IAST, SCA tools and things like that. If you're interested, please have a look at the course overview and see how you can benefit from this course. I think that's all for me. Thank you so much and I'll just pass it on to Hossein. Thank you.
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: Thank you very much Pouya. It's Hossein again. And we're going to talk about the application process.
Katie Macaluso: Very good, yeah, I'll pass that over to Marcos.
Marcos Baez: Hi, good afternoon. My name is Marcos. I'm one of the advisors for the cybersecurity program here at St. Bonaventure. The admissions process for this program is pretty simplified. All that we ask is, you have your undergrad degree, your bachelor's degree in a computer science related field. That'll qualify you to bypass our certification program. Now if you don't have a relevant background, whether it be through your work experience or undergrad, with our new certification program, you now also have a pathway into our master's program. With your undergrad, we do require a minimum GPA of 2.5, and you'd also be required to provide us with a police clearance due to the sensitive nature of cybersecurity.
Marcos Baez: It's important, there is nothing unethical in your background as it relates. And then also there's no GMAT or GRE requirements, which can be the case with similar programs and also business-related programs. That's an exam you'd have to take. So again, not a requirement with our program. Now with all that being said, we are currently accepting applications for next session. Our next deadline is coming up and classes do start at the end of August. Once the presentation is over, hang tight, we will open the floor for question and answers as well as an outline for admission if you decide you want to proceed.
Katie Macaluso: All right, so with that said, it is time for our Q&A session. This is the chance that you can ask any questions you might have about the program. To this side of the presentation slides is a box for submitting questions. We'll do our best to get through as many as we can today. I'm going to go in right now actually and take a look at what questions we have. Our first question is, how long does this program take and what is the fastest I could complete it? Should I send this over to you Marcos?
Marcos Baez: Sure. So the program can be completed in as little as 18 months. Now keep in mind if it's determined you need additional foundation courses, it could stretch out the length of the program. But 18 months would be the minimum time needed to complete it.
Katie Macaluso: Okay, great. All right. Our next question is, would you consider an information systems a comparable degree? I'll toss it over to you, Hossein.
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: Yes. Well, it depends on the courses that you've done in your program. If you've done programming and networking, then yes, otherwise you can do those two courses or if you choose to do the certificate, two of the courses in the certificate program are transferable into the Master’s program. Actually, yeah, yeah, two of the courses are transferable. So you could either do the certificate or do courses from the certificate, depending on what courses you've done. So if you've done programming and networking in your undergraduate course, then yes, and it is an information systems course, then it is acceptable as a Bachelor's that qualifies for the Master's.
Katie Macaluso: Okay, very good. Our next question is, is asking if there is a graduation ceremony and a parchment on, I guess just kind of asking in general, is it the same as if you were completing a degree on the campus and participating in the graduation ceremonies? Hossein, can I ask for you for that one as well?
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: I think it would probably be optional if they wanted to attend an on-campus graduation. So you'd graduate with a degree from St. Bonaventure University and as such, you're entitled to attend the graduation ceremony. However, because our students are from multiple states, and they're far away, some of them, like we have people from LA, San Francisco, Chicago, it would be very difficult to require them to attend the on-campus ceremony. It's not compulsory, but you could request to attend the ceremonies.
Katie Macaluso: Okay, terrific. Our next question is, would a basic level of Python programming be sufficient to start the program?
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: I'll let Mikhail answer that question, if you don't mind, Mikhail?
Mikhail Sudakov: Yes. So for the last session of the course, Python was not included, but I am including it for all the future sessions. So yes, if you know your way around Python, the overall requirements for the programs are not that great, actually. So yeah, if you know your way around the programming language, Python included, you should have no issues understanding that.
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: Yeah, so the two, I mean we teach Python programming in our certificate course, so Python would be very appropriate, but if you program in Java or any modern language, that would be sufficient.
Katie Macaluso: Okay, terrific. Our next question is, I have a BS and BA background along with military and law enforcement experience. Do I need to do the certificate program first?
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: The certificate, it depends actually on what courses you've done in your undergraduate program and what your undergraduate degree is in. However, we designed the certificate program for specifically people in law enforcement, in the police force, in the military who have had some experience with IT or security even so that, that program bridges them into the Master's. So yes, I would recommend highly that you do the certificate because you get an initial degree, an initial graduate degree and then you can move into the Master's. And part of the certificate will be counted towards your Master's. You would benefit I believe doing the certificate first, and then getting into the Master's. However, we could, if you didn't want to do the certificate, we could look at your background, your experience, and all of that and advise as to what the best course is. So our recommendation is that you do the certificate. However, we could look at things case by case.
Katie Macaluso: Okay, very good. Our next question asks what should I expect in terms of exams and other homework assignments within the online courses?
Hossein Sarrafzadeh: It varies from course to course. So, I would like to ask Mikhail to talk about that again, but there'll be quizzes, hands-on experiences. For example, in the certificate program, one of the courses is, it teaches you about computer hardware, how it's set up. So, we're going to teach you how to assemble a computer in that course, if you haven't had any experience with computing. Then in that course one of the examinations would be to put together a computer from components and we will help you get used components at a very low price or if you have something at home that you don't want to use, or you can go to a store that sells computers and they might provide you with a used one free of charge and then you can take it apart and put it back together. So that's would be a type of exam, so practical exams plus analyzing code and detecting problems within that code examinations. So it varies from professor to professor. So I'll ask Mikhail to add what he does in his course.
Mikhail Sudakov: For the one I do in the cryptography course; the emphasis is hugely on hands-on. There is a quiz every week, there is a final which I'm actually strongly considering just dropping all together. Basically all you will be doing is doing things. So yes, there will be a lot of theoretical material and I'll just check in quizzes each week to make sure that people are on the same page, but I would say 60% to 70% of your grade is just you're doing stuff. You are making things, breaking things, very little of, first of all, in mine, there's no reading of outside material period, so there's no, like I don't have you read a chapter and then do a quiz on that. It's all hands-on.
Katie Macaluso: Okay, great. Well, thank you both for the detailed answers on that. Our next question asks, "How long does it take to get a decision once you apply to the program?" I'll pass that to you Marcos.
Marcos Baez: Well, it's completely dependent on the student. Again, there's documentation needed to complete an admissions file. Generally, once we gather all documentation, we should have a decision within a day or two, once your file's able to be reviewed.
Katie Macaluso: Okay, so pretty fast.
Marcos Baez: Very streamlined.
Katie Macaluso: Once everything is in. Okay, great.
Alright, well, I think that is all of the questions that we have time for today. We want to thank you all for joining us for today's presentation about the online graduate cyber security programs, we'll be sending out a recording to you, once it's available, so that you can view this in more detail later and I would encourage you to reach out to Marcos or Elizabeth for more information or to schedule an appointment to talk or to begin your application when you're ready to do so.
Thank you so much for attending, and we hope you have a great rest of your afternoon. Thank you.